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Talk:Treasure Hunter
Unanswered Questions Why is "Treasure Hunter II" listed as a sepparate trait in "Job Traits"? :If TH2 is actually a different trait, TH+1 items do not affect TH2 What percentage does TH1 add to any given drop rate? What percentage does TH2 add to any given drop rate(assuming it simply stacks with TH1 and isnt a slightly different idea)? What percentage does TH+1 add to any given drop rate? ---- Summary I think it is widely agreed that multiple THF make no difference to drop rates(wether that be duo farming right up to 36 THFs all taking part in a dyna run) The Treasure Hunter trait adds a % to an items drop rate and does not add a /random to the drop calculations(SE have stated that a maximum of 10 items can drop from one enemy(crystals dropping into remaining slots up to the number of party members with a Signet type effect on) but if a mob can only drop one BHC(for example), TH does not change this, only make it more likely to drop) SE have stated that TH does not affect the contents of a BCNM chest ---- "Chances of Treasure Hunter abilities going off on a mob kill will be greately lessened if it is killed with a Weapon Skill or if a Job Ability, such as a Warrior's Berserk or Dark Knight's Souleater, are still active. " Huh? Do you have proof of this? -- FnDragon ---- In a recent interview, I can't remember which or I would link it, SE stated that the ONLY thing that affected Treasure Hunter was having a THF in the party. They specifically said that the THF did not need to land the final blow. They then followed that up by saying that rumors similar to that are false. --Syeria 21:00, 11 April 2006 (PDT) Developer Interview References I scoured the internets tonight for the developer interview in which they said that TH is only dependent on the Thief being in the party, and not having to contribute to the final blow and such. I got into an argument with someone tonight camping stupid ValkEmp regarding TH, and I wanted to make sure that what I heard was correct. An old school interview... *FFXI.crgaming Interview from Nov 2003 :*By having a thief in the party, how much increase is there in the Gil/Item drop after defeating a monster? :::We are unable to give too many details with regards to the value of points. However, if the thief is skilled with the Treasure Hunter job ability, it may not be a bad idea to adventure with a thief. Also, with regard to gil, when a thief joins a party, there are no changes to the amount of gil obtained. :::: Does this mean that Gilfinder only works in solo, or something? Tahngarthor 20:37, 17 January 2007 (EST) :*Does having a thief increase the possibility of a drop even in key/quest items (aprons, skull, wadi grass, etc.)? :::Of course! Only the thief has the ability to acquire the Treasure Hunter job ability. There is an increased chance in obtaining dropped items. More recently... *FFXI.Stratics Interview from May 2005 :*I have to ask on behalf of all thieves out there, are there any conditions to activating the Treasure Hunter ability or is just being in the party enough? There are a whole bunch of theories such as thief having the last hit. :::If there is a thief in the party then you will have the treasure hunter ability, if you want to have some conspiracy theories well we can't tell you. If you want to think that it's the last hit then you can go ahead and think that. And the kicker... *Allakhazam Boards Post from Mar 2006 (this is someone's liveblog deal thing... I couldn't find a more "official" transcript of the interview. All other references I found regarding treasure hunter pointed back to this post.) *I also found this on a more reputable site, but it does not have the full transcript here: 1up Festival Summary :*How does Treasure Hunter work? :::Can't say too much, but it has nothing to do with damage or the last blow. You simply must have it in the party. I suppose this was more for my own personal reference and to reconfirm my belief in ye olde Treasure Hunter. I have a feeling that I read the last information on an actual transcript, perhaps even on the Fan Festival website... but I don't know, it seems to have been changed from what I remembered. --Waluigi 07:33, 20 August 2006 (EDT) Most Recent Revision Those theories are WAY too far-fetched to be included in a description of what the ability may do. I always thought of information pages as less theory, but more of what is known. Personally don't think those new theories belong there. --Zhais :Agreed - Moved to below. --Nynaeve 02:18, 11 December 2006 (EST) I admire DT7's enthusiasm in editing but even if those "Theories" are plausible, there is no way to prove them, and more likely this is just his own explanation of why TH doesn't make drops dramatically better all the time. You're welcome to pose these things, but if you have some new idea it's best to discuss it on the talk page or in the forums first. He has also changed proven information to things that are incorrect without reviewing the talk page (which contained an explanation). The talk pages are a valuable tool, please make use of them :) Tahngarthor 20:33, 17 January 2007 (EST). Other Theories * Over a long period of time, it's noticable that at sometimes the "Treasure Hunter" trait "shuts off" at certain times. For some thieves, their "Treasure Hunter" seems to affect drops based on moon phase, where new moon seems to effect rarer drops to appear more often and full moon seems to deactivate it (at least through tests using Hume Male Thieves). ::* Low drops during a particular moon phase is not an indication that TH is "shut off" or not working. It is commonly believed (even by me) that the moon phase affects drops in one way or another. But the other common belief is that Treasure Hunter provides a percentage increase. Asuming this is true, if an item has a very low chance to drop, you will not so easily feel the effect of treasure hunter, and here's an example: Let's just say (for argument) that the Kraken Club has a 1% chance to drop from it's BCNM on a new moon. Let's also say (for argument), that TH4 increases drop rates 25%. The chance to drop a karaken club would still only be 1.25% (.01 + (.01*.25)=.0125)), which you would barely even notice over countless dozens of runs of the BC, at which point you would be believing that TH is having no effect when in reality the scale is just too small for you to measure accurately. By the same token, an item that drops 1/5 of the time on a new moon (20%) would now drop 1/4 or 25% of the time, which is the same percentage increase but much easier to measure. I hope this helps. Tahngarthor 20:50, 17 January 2007 (EST) * I would have to agree and disagree with Tahn, I've never seen a difference on drop rates with any moon phase, the same goes for my THF friends. I've camped during new/full moons for 300+ hours on multiple NMs over the years and haven't seen any noticable difference. That being said, his percentage explaination seems dead on, barring the BCNM and Moon part. When I farm say, beast blood, which, while watching my fiance who has no TH ability, seems to have a 70% or so drop rate for a single, and 25% for 2 bloods to drop. My rate with TH3, however, seems to be 90% or so for at least a single, with a 60ish percent chance for two bloods to drop. Also, it seems when I farm rarer items, it seems to have little to no effect at all. Diorite, for example, seems to have an average drop time whether a THF or no THF is in my sky LS. (We have TH4 Thieves along with TH3.) I would say through everything my THF friends and I have experienced, evidence would show it was a percentage increase as he decribed. (Thank you for taking the time to put that in simple enough terms to explain, I'll just reference your post when someone asks me what I mean next time. <_< lol) AlaikAlaik * There's an unproven theory that treasure hunter's effectiveness is based on a dice roll system at the beginning of each game day, where at the start of each game day an invisible dice is rolled to determine the effectiveness of Treasure Hunter. --DT7 (19:49, 10 December 2006) *If TH works like is mentioned on the main page, where a /random is done to determine what you get, maybe TH expands the range of your roll. Lets say for Leaping Lizzy, the range for the boots is 125-135, giving you 10/1000 chances, or 1%. So lets say the effect of TH is to add a +/- to your roll, maybe 100. So instead of needing to roll a 130 to get your boots, you could roll anywhere from 25-235, giving you a 210/1000 chance, thus adding 20% chance of you getting drops. This is just pure speculation based off the limited information we have, but it seems plausible. Maybe some drops even have overlapping ranges, which would explain how you get multiple drops with one kill. JTimmons 23:27, 13 September 2007 (EST) Treasure Hunter (RE: Joped's Edit) In my experience, and something I read somewhere, but I forget where. Per this section: Despite rumors to the contrary, so long as a thief is in the party, and in the same zone, Treasure Hunter is always active for all mob kills, regardless of who lands the killing blow. This has been revealed in many interviews with SE representatives. No action, or lack of action, on the part of the thief will affect this trait, short of equipping gear that Enhances "Treasure Hunter" effect. In order for it to take effect, the Thief must be on the hate list of the respective mob and within the proper distance to obtain Experience Points, even if the mob does not give EXP. (e.g. Dynamis, but you still get the message if you're too far away) --Charitwo 15:54, 22 March 2007 (EDT) -I can indeed confirm the EXP range theory of this but im sure i can dispel your "Hate List" theory, from spending many days in the highlands kill Rams for Horns. I was killing one pop & my wife was killing the other. Every kill that i got yielded 1~2 horn & 3~4 skins,every time, every kill my wife got was the same. The only time the drop rates changed was when i received the "You are too far away from battle to gain experience points" Message. The drop rate was far poorer with no horns and only 1 or 2 skins. This was over a 4 day period, different moon phases, different days with a Thief's Knife. I have also noticed this holds true in Dynamis when im the only THF on the run, if i receive the "You are too far from battle to gain experience points" message on pulls, mobs tend to drop little to none 1cc. If someone feels that they should test this further, please do, as further confirmation would help to solve some of the TH enigma. I am adding this to the page, please remove if you feel it is inappropriate. Sorry for the repeated minor edits to the chat page, as its late and i was trying to find the best way to word this. --Emperordragon 01:40, 11 April 2007 (EST) Shamaya's Edit I put up a little "verification sign" on the bit that said that testing had shown that the thief needed to be in exp range. I don't see any source here showing a test, only anecdotal claims, which is why I added that. Charitwo, you mentioned that SE made a commentary that the thief needed to be in EXP range. I remember that vaguely. If someone finds a source for that, link it here, and it can be moved from the testing/theory section to the facts section. --ShamayaAsura 19:28, 7 December 2007 (UTC) It's Fact that if the Thief receives the "You are too far from battle to gain experience points" message, Treasure Hunter will not take effect. I'm sure it was said during the fanfest in 2007. Not only that but any respectable THF should already know this. And no offense and I don;t want to start a flame war here but saying "I don't see any source here showing a test, only anecdotal claims" is not right. If a THF uses AC to see if he get's more TP return isn't that a "test" if a THF runs in and out of "xp range" over a period of 4 days with another farmer and counts the drops, isn't that a "test". If you want the truth we will have to neeja the FF code on the SE severs and go through it all line by line and even then there have been so many updates that I bet SE doesn't even know where to find it. Which is probbaly why there hasnt been any new TH+1 gear since Zilart (original programmers*) I want to remove the verification tag, cause it's been verified on Alla forums, KI forums, IGN forums, Windower.net Forums, and even our own wiki forums. Plus it's unfair to even have it tagged for verification cause we will never probably know. *KI forums for TH testing *Taken off Fanfest 2007 Fanfest 2007 Developer's Panel Question: How does Treasure Hunter affect drops in Battlefields, Dynamis/Limbus, and even when opening chests? Answer: Treasure Hunter has no effect on chest contents. As for Dynamis and Limbus, Treasure Hunter is active just as anywhere else in Vana'diel. For it to be active, the thief must have performed some type of action against the target, and it need not be the final blow. --Azaron 09:45, 11 July 2008 (UTC) Please revise. i would like to bring up a few points open for anyone looking to explore this trait. theres alot of debate on what TH does, i look for paterns in the games coding, and question things that dont fit the general patern. keep in mind this is only my humble opinion on how the trait works, but i do however have reason to believe it plausable. for example, why is there TH2 and TH1? every other job trait, such as or get enhancments at certain levels, increasing their efficency. so why then 2 seperate traits, and not an enhancement to the original? my theory is that they are for completly different things. for example, TH1 could be for normal drops, eg. lizard skin, silk, etc. while TH2 could be for R/EX drops. which would make sense in the idea that anyone can sub thf and farm using it, and why thfs are usually present when u see R/EX drops. that being said, i think TH enhancing items only enhance TH1, and not TH2, because it would say TH2+1 and not TH+1. which also makes sense with regards to only thf being able to use such items, making their TH1 better then somone with thf sub, which in turn gives thf a higher advantage at the trait that was made for them. excuse my sloppy post, for simply wanted to drop some quick points, rather then present numbers. i am however in the testing of such things to have the numbers to prove/disprove my theory. with regards to testing somthing like this, it takes alot of time and needs to take place on a wide time scale to be accurate when taking into account moon phase, day of week, luck items etc. hence i posted this in hopes that others will also test, when similar results from mulitple ppl come up the same, its alot more concrete then invisible '/randoms' that more then likely dont exist Whoever put this on the main TH page, please do not add a rather large WoT of speculation. It belongs in a guide or talk page. : This is VERY unrealistic. The theory would the have to accomodate things like the fast cast trait, which also gets "upgraded" at a higher level. Meaning the fast cast equipment would only effect the first fast cast trait and none of the others. It has been proven with fast cast that the traits stack. So if you want to look at, as you put it, "patterns in code" then take something like the fast cast traits. This would mean TH1 and TH2 stack. So going on the percentage idea 1% (TH) and 2% (TH2) would mean a 3% increase in drop rate. --Gravylegg 06:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC) : I dunno if this might have some kind of possibility to it. TH is the only ability I know of in which the upgraded level has a separate listing under your job traits. It specifically lists Treasure Hunter at 15, then Treasure Hunter 2 at 45. Any other trait, like Fast Cast, gets upgrades at higher levels but it never lists a separate ability as in Fast Cast 1, Fast Cast 2, etc. Maybe there is some merit in this? --Kuldin 21:54, 21 December 2007 Rumors In my opinion, rumors, especially far-out ones that can never be proven, have no place in a Wiki like this. Can't we just delete that excessiveness entirely(maybe perhaps what SE said in an interview)? I'm sure if it was really wanted, it could be linked to a forum thread that showed tests of such things. :Perhaps from the actual article, but the talk page can still be used for discussion.Besides, SE already said that they need to be in EXP range to take effect. --Charitwo 09:30, 11 April 2007 (EDT) Treasure Hunter +1 I very highly doubt Treasure Hunter +1 is +1%, it seems far greater than that (~10%). Drops seem alot better with a Thief's Knife. --Emperordragon 12:00, 12 April 2007 (EST) : I'm not about to add it to the article (unsubstantiated rumor/etc. and all that) but I have a pretty good reason to believe that TH+1 is equivalent to 1/10th of a full trait, as that's how all other traits (aside from, obviously, Clear Mind) behave. So TH2 is 20 "points" of Treasure Hunter, and the Thief's Knife tacks on an additional point. Net result: 5% increase in effect. That said, it'd require actually looking at the source code to the game to definitively pin it down (or outright asking "Does 'TH+1' on a piece of gear have the same relative effect to TH as 'Store TP+1' does to Store TP, 'DA+1' does to DA, etc.?" at the next Fanfest, which would probably be a good idea). I admit it doesn't tell us how much effect TH has in general (my guess: it's Zanshin for the internal dice roll to determine drops, ha ha), but it'd explain why some people see ~10% increases and others see ~1% increases in drop rates. --Mdenham 22:44, 11 May 2008 (UTC) New Section/page Would anyone be against me(or someone else) making a new page for the TH Rumors? If that is too much, how about a section after "Gear that increases this effect" that would hold all the speculation? :That wouldn't be necessary, that's exactly what this talk page is for. --Wayka 02:32, 15 April 2007 (EDT) :Agreed, the main page is for facts, the talk page is for discussion regarding questions, comments, and opinions regarding the article. You can however, start a new section in the talk page for what you describe. --Chrisjander 02:51, 15 April 2007 (EDT) Confirm/Deny? This is painfully obvious to me, but alas I have no proof of it. However I think it should be noted on the main page at the very least as it really is not a rumor, unless someone has a differing answer. That is, that TH does absolutely nothing on lower lvl mobs, mobs that are of a much lower lvl than the THF. A 75 THF killing lvl 1 worms for zinc ore will get straight owned by any lvl 1 job, THF or not. There are too many Thfs and /Thfs running around pillaging newbie zones and exp camps thinking their TH is actually doing something, when it isn't doing a damn thing. NMs might be another story I don't know, but standard mobs? If anyone has any evidence to the contrary though I would be interested in seeing it. --Tomai 22:18, 29 May 2007 (CDT) :I don't see how it's obvious if you have no proof? Just because it makes sense to you doesn't mean it's reality! I have farmed Giddeus for dozens of hours for Yagudo Bead Necklaces (well over a thousand) as a level 74 for Norg fame for many characters. I've done this both solo with and without TH and I was (obviously) vastly higher than the local mobs (which are newb lv7ish). The drop rate without TH is low, like 25% neighborhood (I don't know exactly, I don't solo there a lot without TH). I have also tried it with 1, 2, and 3 friends all either main THF or /THF, and it becomes very obvious very quickly that it helps against lower level mobs (very close to 100% drop rate with 3-4 /THF in party all close together, all significantly higher than the mob). This also works against crawlers for silk thread in West and East Saru too! You can also tell that it works with RAR/EX drops as you will get Smooth Stones, Meteorites and other weird objects nearly every kill, whereas before they were somewhat rare. Freazer 17:51, 17 July 2007 (CDT) ::I agree with what Freazer has stated. I have farmed giddeus too as 60THF/NIN and as 67PLD/WAR, the drop rate is far better as THF/NIN. Average Yagudo Necklace farming run in giddeus with PLD/WAR it would take me 1-1/2 hours to fill my inventory from 4/60. With THF/NIN I would be full within 30-45 minutes, this is solo. --Evagelo 03:58, 20 August 2007 (CDT) :::SE has come out and said that level does not effect drop rates. Square-Enix Q&A Response: June 2004 ::::--Gravylegg 06:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC) Treasure Hunter Testing I started collecting data on drop rates for bees using TH0 (NIN/WAR), TH1 (NIN/THF), TH2, TH3 and TH4. The data and analysis is posted here: http://khoisan.livejournal.com/15302.html Here are two graphs. The first one shows the chance that a mob will drop anything at all (Drop Mob/Total Kills), and the total number of drops (Total Drop/Total Kills). The second shows the effect of TH on the drop pattern (No drops, 1 drop, 2 drops etc...) The two graphs show that total drops are increased by TH1 and TH2 by both increasing the chance a mob will drop something, and increasing the chance it will drop more than one item. After TH2 the drop percentage doesn't increase past 66% for the target mob (Bees near Rose Garden). TH3 and TH4 increase total drops by increase the double drop percentage. One of two things may be happening. Either the mob has a natural drop cap of 66% (which is reached by TH2), or the TH+1 items don't affect the drop %, just the chance of multiple drops. More testing would be required to determine this. Moon phase was not taken into account to reduce the number of variables. Shulula 14:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC) Well done; A good, defined method, well presented, and with some interesting results. The sample size of 100 monsters is a little small, but it seems that a larger sampling isn't needed to see clear results in this case. I'd like to see some similar tests with unique drops (i.e. Damselfly Worm, Star Spinel, etc.), with multiple drops of the same item, or with monsters that have an unusually high drop rate (i.e. Rams), to see if the results differ in any way. ~ Karuberu 15:33, 2 November 2007 (UTC) If Treasure Hunter has no effect on the drops pattern at all (which is very realistic), the second graph would still look the same. Let's say that every mob has a list of items it drops and a respective drop rate. If the drop rate for each item is increased, then the probability to obtain more items would naturally increase with it. Let's say that without TH you would get item A but not B. Since TH increases both drop percentages, you would even more likely get item A, and also increase the chance of getting item B. So the number of drops would increase without TH actually affecting it. Zaphor 13:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC) The apparent drop in items using TH3 could just be a flaw in the results due to a small sample size Maverick 18:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC) Interview Q&A A quick scan of this page shows that the mechanics of Treasure Hunter are far from universally agreed upon, so I added a citation for you on the latest additions. Not to mention, they were direct copy/pastes from my translation. Elmer the Pointy 20:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC) My Edit, 12/7/07 Just went in and changed around a few things, and thought I should make note of it here. I put TH testing and theory in its own section. Also made a note that the list of testing and theory shown was not comprehensive. Also added additional recent SE commentaries to the first section. I think there is more that can yet be added to an article, and I hope that these changes were a step in the right direction. Sources that should be noted For the first section, both of these sources were contributing: *Fall'07 Osaka Fan Festival, translated by Elmer the Pointy (Pages 1 and 5) *Fan Festival 2007 Live Blog And for the testing section: *test by Divisortheory --ShamayaAsura 18:53, 7 December 2007 (UTC) Luck Item edit, 2/4/08 Added in SE's Q&A commentary regarding luck items and luck in general. Also from the following source, Fan Festival 2007 Live Blog --Sham 04:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC) Further edits, 2/4/08 I've been doing a bit of specific TH testing, mostly to confirm some inferences made from the recent fan festival commentaries. I'll most likely be editing that into the TH testing/theory section soon. Source - http://shamayaasura.livejournal.com/ Data - Total sample was nearly 900 kills. The test simply confirm concerns regarding TH stacking within the alliance as opposed to the party, and also the party with TH getting the killshot, as opposed to the actual thief him/herself getting the killshot. --Sham 04:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC) S-E has said, and it is currently suggested by the article, that the THF getting the killshot is irrelevant; so it's not really something that needs to be focused on for testing. Parties on the other hand are a bit less clear, but I was fairly sure that it was said in some official channel that TH is applied from the party that had claim on the mob when it died. Tahngarthortalk- 21:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC) It's interesting that you say that, Tahn, because most people that I've talked to who commented on my research stated the opposite, that they thought that they heard SE say, officially, that "the highest treasure hunter level in the alliance is the one that takes effect, and that it does not stack" even though the English translations stated 'party' and not 'alliance' or 'alliances.' So yes, that's one of the motivations for the testing you see above. To test whether or not the party that gets the killshot needs to have TH in it for TH to activate. Most have said that my sample size of almost a thousand wasn't enough, but I haven't mastered the statistical formulas yet to show my margin of error mathematically. In any event, it's at least a somewhat decent sample and it supports the inferences that many have made, that TH doesn't stack even with an alliance, nor in multiple alliances (in the case of dynamis, etc).--Sham 12:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC) Theory from article page "Many believe that Treasure Hunter is no more than simply adding an extra /random to treasure drops. That is, they believe that treasure drops are managed through a /random system in which items are distributed if the number rolled goes above a set number. I.e. lizards would, hypothetically, drop lizard tails from a roll of 220-400, lizard eggs at 401-560, etc. Hence, Treasure Hunter simply gives a THF an extra roll and therefore an extra chance at the items but not technically an increased rate. The increased rate is derived from increased rolls. And as each party member has their own /random roll at mob death, a THF's Treasure Hunter is equivalent to having so many members, unknown how many, in the party. In other words, a THF's drop rate would be comparable to the drops of a three member party (just an example). Treasure Hunter II, however, may have a stipulation that its random cannot go below a set number. As well, the effects of Treasure Hunter, some have proposed, may not be fully taken advantage of unless the party is full or may have increased effects or a higher /random set when in full PT/Alliance." * I have two issues with this. First, is the "many believe" comment for probably obvious reasons. Second, this paragaph suggests that treasure hunter creates the possibility for the mob to drop more items than is normally possible to drop from a particular mob. Theory further up this page does suggest that the chance to get all the potential drops increases, but no one suggests that you could get extra drops above and beyond what is already technically possible like this paragraph does. The latter half of this theory paragraph doesnt really seem to be based on anything at all and is just the writer's perosnal interpretation of what is going on when TH influences drops. I believe theory should be kept off the articles themselves and discussed in the talk page whenever possible; The article is for fact and for information generally accepted as fact based on available information. The first parts of this page are fine as they are taken from information Square-Enix has given.User:Tahngarthortalk- 21:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC) I think I'm going to have to agree with the edit you did. --Sham 12:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC) Edit, Testing/Theory section, 4-17-08 Edited in my own tests into the Testing/Theory section of the article, which I've been too lazy to do up until now. Additional TH tests done by members of Order of the Blue Garter Forum Here are charts based on testing done on TH0, TH1 and TH2 on Dhamels. There is a new TH thread on Blue Garter (http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63785) where people are compiling data on several mobs. Here are some charts based on the TH0, TH1 and TH2 data on dhamels. Data: Drop Kill is the total number of drops over the total number of kills. It is a measure of loot output and can be greater than 100% if you get more total drops than the total mobs killed. Drop Mob is the chance that a mob will drop anything. It does not take into account what drops or the number of drops. Drop Groupings: Drop Stats: Analysis: These charts are based on 1000 kills for each level of Treasure Hunter. On a basic level you can see that TH increases the chance that something will drop from a mob (ie the chance that 0 items drops decreases). It also increases the chance that multiple items will drop (2-drop 3-Drop and 4-Drop). Getting 3 and 4 drops is still rare even for Dhamels but TH does increase it. The distance between Drop Mob and Drop Kill on the second chart is the effect of multiple drops on your loot output. If every mob dropped 1 item, the lines would be identical. The combination of those two effects, increases the loot output from 24.9% (TH0) to 56.1% (TH1) to 79.7% (TH2). How TH affects each drop, or combination of drops is more complex and we need more analysis.